Post by imSINGLEruRICH on Aug 23, 2009 10:28:42 GMT -5
737man
DIAMOND MINER
Re: UC SAID "ITS ALL IN THE DERIVATIVES"
« Reply #15 Today at 12:48pm »
Cmkxdiamonds, I have long thought that any payout to us would indeed come from the shadows, pulled out of the off-balance sheet world and generated from such. We know that the banks and brokers own and feed, either directly or indirectly, hedge funds and Shadow Banking system entities. Money is leveraged and hidden from there.
All the money raped from the working people is not sitting in cash accounts; it is spent on islands, jewels, art, mega-yachts, chateaus, businesses and land to name a few entities. The banks are a classic example of not having any cash. They can't even cut the mustard with an 8% cash requirement. That's why they are borrowing billions to not show that they are bankrupt; this to keep from having runs, just like the Grandfather Clause stopped a giant run...When the derivatives unwinding started, the money had to be extracted from greedy, thrice insulated fingers and they don't want to give it up.
I think we all know or can guess that most brokers' security positions shown on our statements are markers. Almost all of the $65 trillion of the CDS are open trades using fictitious 'markers' for their basis. We even had at one time an admitted $2 trillion in Treasury bonds counterfeited. The list goes on. $700+ trillion of fraudulent trading of worthless, dismembered assets, or uncovered currency and commodities trades all point in one direction...
If the SEC did indeed ask for more time to clean up the CMKX trapped criminal entities, their friends the brokers, bankers and hedge funds, it follows nicely the Grandfather clause attempt citing the whole market would fail if they had to cover the cumulative NSS across the trading platforms.
Below are some year old OAKS excerpts from posts July and August '08 and I thank him for these. I don't believe for a second that he is pulling this scenario out of thin air. I think he is right and I figured that was where our money would have to come from and I've thought this for 2 years. Of course, I'm writing this from Lagos where the life force is slowly getting sucked out of me and I will need the pool with the cocoons very shortly. jmo
July 22...
"...As for any large payout amounts it can only be answered by how deep we may be into the Shadow Banking System and whether there was considerable leverage used to enhance the return.
Take $100 million and leverage it 100 times in the derivative game and you come out with a whack of moola if it works. Do that a couple of times and holy greenbacks batman!!
Is that what happened? Don't know but it is the only way it could derive what would be IMO an outrageous return for shareholders to happen with 700 billion shares outstanding..."
Aug 11...
"...I think we would all agree that if shareholders are to receive what would be considered an off the wall per share settlement..ie let's use the famous .54 cents a share which would approach $380 bill., it could only be extracted from the "shadow (derivative and other fuzzy dice financial instruments) banking system). I never believed it could be possible until I began investigating the MASSIVE amounts of money controlled, transacted and PROFITED through these off balance sheet GREED MOTIVATED smoke and mirror global TRADES and SWAPS.
If the sting succeeded, then IMO it is highly possible it was done to sting the system itself, and after all is said and done, do it legally. Precisely why the "establishment" may have put up such a fight to pay? After all...we are talking a sub sub penny non reporting public stock being able to accomplish this? What a smack in the face to those who don't give a rat's butt about the little guy!!!..."
Aug 12...
"...As far as my reference to "fuzzy"...how many people have ever heard of the "shadow banking system", if they are not in the business? It is shadow because it is very complex, it is for the most part global and allows for the movement of huge amounts of funds, even if as you say it is transacted between 2 parties. For the most part these offshoot financial instruments were designed to maximize the greed factor and it is one of the major reasons the US has found itself in this financial meltdown and it is now effecting Britain and other countries around the world..."
Aug 12...
"...It is clear the SEC and the FED do not properly understand the naked shorting issue and how deep and how far reaching it could extend into the derivatives market and the "shadow banking system".
When CMKX was trading in 2004 and 2005, we kept hearing of all this trading that did not actually show up anywhere visible. Well if it was in the "shadows", it is IMO precisely where the extremely leveraged naked shorting could have occurred and hence the potential flip side extreme shareholder recovery.
If CMKX was in fact naked shorted 50 to 75 times (leverage) the outstanding shares, ie 700 billion, then the dollar numbers are downright absurdly scary. Those responsible would of course presume that as CMKX is/was a sub sub non reporting penny stock that noone would care and noone would come after the guilty parties. IMO, via the STING they took the bait as GREEDY as they possibly could and in the process got caught BIG TIME..."
Aug 12...
"...Yes and potentially take just that 200 billion and mulitply it by 50 to 75 times with unregulated or even unnoticed LEVERAGE through naked shorting of an offshoot derivative or perhaps ARBITRAGE transaction(s)...all leading back to CMKX as the root source of the trades?
There had to be a reason why Glenn with all his years of experience authorized that final 300 bill shares. Maintain control? Draw in the players deeper? Prove to his SEC contacts what had been going on with the previous 500 bill? We have noted that Glenn has not been named in any manner by the SEC since the delisting..."
[/i]
Aug 12...
"...Further to the thought process...
Take much of the potential derivative trading OFF SHORE and it becomes exponentially harder to expose, control, collect, etc.
Oaks (aimho)..."
Thank you Andy for the above information and I think you are spot on...jmo
DIAMOND MINER
Re: UC SAID "ITS ALL IN THE DERIVATIVES"
« Reply #15 Today at 12:48pm »
Cmkxdiamonds, I have long thought that any payout to us would indeed come from the shadows, pulled out of the off-balance sheet world and generated from such. We know that the banks and brokers own and feed, either directly or indirectly, hedge funds and Shadow Banking system entities. Money is leveraged and hidden from there.
All the money raped from the working people is not sitting in cash accounts; it is spent on islands, jewels, art, mega-yachts, chateaus, businesses and land to name a few entities. The banks are a classic example of not having any cash. They can't even cut the mustard with an 8% cash requirement. That's why they are borrowing billions to not show that they are bankrupt; this to keep from having runs, just like the Grandfather Clause stopped a giant run...When the derivatives unwinding started, the money had to be extracted from greedy, thrice insulated fingers and they don't want to give it up.
I think we all know or can guess that most brokers' security positions shown on our statements are markers. Almost all of the $65 trillion of the CDS are open trades using fictitious 'markers' for their basis. We even had at one time an admitted $2 trillion in Treasury bonds counterfeited. The list goes on. $700+ trillion of fraudulent trading of worthless, dismembered assets, or uncovered currency and commodities trades all point in one direction...
If the SEC did indeed ask for more time to clean up the CMKX trapped criminal entities, their friends the brokers, bankers and hedge funds, it follows nicely the Grandfather clause attempt citing the whole market would fail if they had to cover the cumulative NSS across the trading platforms.
Below are some year old OAKS excerpts from posts July and August '08 and I thank him for these. I don't believe for a second that he is pulling this scenario out of thin air. I think he is right and I figured that was where our money would have to come from and I've thought this for 2 years. Of course, I'm writing this from Lagos where the life force is slowly getting sucked out of me and I will need the pool with the cocoons very shortly. jmo
July 22...
"...As for any large payout amounts it can only be answered by how deep we may be into the Shadow Banking System and whether there was considerable leverage used to enhance the return.
Take $100 million and leverage it 100 times in the derivative game and you come out with a whack of moola if it works. Do that a couple of times and holy greenbacks batman!!
Is that what happened? Don't know but it is the only way it could derive what would be IMO an outrageous return for shareholders to happen with 700 billion shares outstanding..."
Aug 11...
"...I think we would all agree that if shareholders are to receive what would be considered an off the wall per share settlement..ie let's use the famous .54 cents a share which would approach $380 bill., it could only be extracted from the "shadow (derivative and other fuzzy dice financial instruments) banking system). I never believed it could be possible until I began investigating the MASSIVE amounts of money controlled, transacted and PROFITED through these off balance sheet GREED MOTIVATED smoke and mirror global TRADES and SWAPS.
If the sting succeeded, then IMO it is highly possible it was done to sting the system itself, and after all is said and done, do it legally. Precisely why the "establishment" may have put up such a fight to pay? After all...we are talking a sub sub penny non reporting public stock being able to accomplish this? What a smack in the face to those who don't give a rat's butt about the little guy!!!..."
Aug 12...
"...As far as my reference to "fuzzy"...how many people have ever heard of the "shadow banking system", if they are not in the business? It is shadow because it is very complex, it is for the most part global and allows for the movement of huge amounts of funds, even if as you say it is transacted between 2 parties. For the most part these offshoot financial instruments were designed to maximize the greed factor and it is one of the major reasons the US has found itself in this financial meltdown and it is now effecting Britain and other countries around the world..."
Aug 12...
"...It is clear the SEC and the FED do not properly understand the naked shorting issue and how deep and how far reaching it could extend into the derivatives market and the "shadow banking system".
When CMKX was trading in 2004 and 2005, we kept hearing of all this trading that did not actually show up anywhere visible. Well if it was in the "shadows", it is IMO precisely where the extremely leveraged naked shorting could have occurred and hence the potential flip side extreme shareholder recovery.
If CMKX was in fact naked shorted 50 to 75 times (leverage) the outstanding shares, ie 700 billion, then the dollar numbers are downright absurdly scary. Those responsible would of course presume that as CMKX is/was a sub sub non reporting penny stock that noone would care and noone would come after the guilty parties. IMO, via the STING they took the bait as GREEDY as they possibly could and in the process got caught BIG TIME..."
Aug 12...
"...Yes and potentially take just that 200 billion and mulitply it by 50 to 75 times with unregulated or even unnoticed LEVERAGE through naked shorting of an offshoot derivative or perhaps ARBITRAGE transaction(s)...all leading back to CMKX as the root source of the trades?
There had to be a reason why Glenn with all his years of experience authorized that final 300 bill shares. Maintain control? Draw in the players deeper? Prove to his SEC contacts what had been going on with the previous 500 bill? We have noted that Glenn has not been named in any manner by the SEC since the delisting..."
[/i]
Aug 12...
"...Further to the thought process...
Take much of the potential derivative trading OFF SHORE and it becomes exponentially harder to expose, control, collect, etc.
Oaks (aimho)..."
Thank you Andy for the above information and I think you are spot on...jmo