Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2010 7:20:35 GMT -5
When you short a stock, as I understand it, you are betting that the price will go down. You never buy the stock long. The shares are owned by the institution the sold you the shorts. Naked shorts occur when the institution 'says they have the shares but don't and sell the shorts anyway.' So, either way the shares are never sold long. The naked shares never existed, so, NSS shares don't exist. What was paid into the trust was the cost of the NSS shares sold. The only real shares were those that were sold long. If you short shares, you never own them so they no one can claim to have them. Please tell me if I'm right here. So that means that 700 billion shares on record (long shares) minus the phony printed shares that were distributed for the pump up. I don't remember how many that was, I think it was something like 200 billion(please correct me). Would be your answer.
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Post by bjenkins on Aug 18, 2010 7:58:56 GMT -5
When you short a stock, as I understand it, you are betting that the price will go down. You never buy the stock long. The shares are owned by the institution the sold you the shorts. Naked shorts occur when the institution 'says they have the shares but don't and sell the shorts anyway.' So, either way the shares are never sold long. The naked shares never existed, so, NSS shares don't exist. What was paid into the trust was the cost of the NSS shares sold. The only real shares were those that were sold long. If you short shares, you never own them so they no one can claim to have them. Please tell me if I'm right here. So that means that 700 billion shares on record (long shares) minus the phony printed shares that were distributed for the pump up. I don't remember how many that was, I think it was something like 200 billion(please correct me). Would be your answer. Your answer is 503 billion shares?
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Post by vpd on Aug 18, 2010 8:07:31 GMT -5
People who bought a naked share have just as much right to a claim on the settlement money as a person who bought a bonafide cert backed share. So the denominator in this equation is much greater than 703b (less the canceled shares). I have read somewhere that there was something like 2.2 trillion NSS. If this is in fact true the number would be more like 3 trillion total shares (combing the NSS and the bonafide) which would be @ $1.30 - $1.40 per share. This WAG is just my humbe opinion.
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Post by Ed Jagacki on Aug 18, 2010 8:12:01 GMT -5
VPD:
I think you are right on. I tried to make the same point yesterday, but I think you did so much more clearly here.
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Post by bjenkins on Aug 18, 2010 8:13:34 GMT -5
People who bought a naked share have just as much right to a claim on the settlement money as a person who bought a bonafide cert backed share. So the denominator in this equation is much greater than 703b (less the canceled shares). I have read somewhere that there was something like 2.2 trillion NSS. If this is in fact true the number would be more like 3 trillion total shares (combing the NSS and the bonafide) which would be @ $1.30 - $1.40 per share. This WAG is just my humbe opinion. Makes sense. Thank you.
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Post by vpd on Aug 18, 2010 8:15:09 GMT -5
VPD: I think you are right on. I tried to make the same point yesterday, but I think you did so much more clearly here. More clearly? Ha that's a first. LOL Sort of "plays" into the range that Manny heard from Al though. IMO
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Post by hacksawjim on Aug 18, 2010 8:18:39 GMT -5
People who bought a naked share have just as much right to a claim on the settlement money as a person who bought a bonafide cert backed share. So the denominator in this equation is much greater than 703b (less the canceled shares). I have read somewhere that there was something like 2.2 trillion NSS. If this is in fact true the number would be more like 3 trillion total shares (combing the NSS and the bonafide) which would be @ $1.30 - $1.40 per share. This WAG is just my humbe opinion. "wild ass guess" ? and do you watch rubicon? hack
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Post by vpd on Aug 18, 2010 8:25:51 GMT -5
People who bought a naked share have just as much right to a claim on the settlement money as a person who bought a bonafide cert backed share. So the denominator in this equation is much greater than 703b (less the canceled shares). I have read somewhere that there was something like 2.2 trillion NSS. If this is in fact true the number would be more like 3 trillion total shares (combing the NSS and the bonafide) which would be @ $1.30 - $1.40 per share. This WAG is just my humbe opinion. "wild ass guess" ? YUP! Seems to me that's about all any of us have. Except of course the guru's who have all the answers. IMO and do you watch rubicon? hack
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Post by hacksawjim on Aug 18, 2010 8:28:31 GMT -5
Except of course the guru's who have all the answers. IMO i was a guru once... on sunday... for half a day. i was a good as the rest. hack
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Post by jcnelson298 on Aug 18, 2010 8:31:25 GMT -5
Who really cares as long as it is payed out ,,,, now brake up that 3.87T and pay us......
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2010 8:45:51 GMT -5
I don't think that NSS shares really exist. Let me do some reading on short selling so I'm not talking out my *ss and I'll get back to you.
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Post by Ed Jagacki on Aug 18, 2010 8:48:39 GMT -5
D4E:
While reading, take note of the DIFFERENCE between short selling and NAKED short selling... very different animals...
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eracer19
Diamond Hunter
stock play of a lifetime
Posts: 40
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Post by eracer19 on Aug 18, 2010 9:14:43 GMT -5
I know of three people who did not get there certs and when they went in to there ameritrade acc. there shares were gone. Ameritrade told them that they were worthless and there gone and you can not get them back. I,m sure this has happened to others also. So I think the only shares that count are those that are certed.
eracer19
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Post by goodolboy on Aug 18, 2010 9:21:33 GMT -5
I know of three people who did not get there certs and when they went in to there ameritrade acc. there shares were gone. Ameritrade told them that they were worthless and there gone and you can not get them back. I,m sure this has happened to others also. So I think the only shares that count are those that are certed. eracer19 I'm not sure where the logic is in that. It seems to me those that have certs have proven ownership, while those who cannot get theirs, or theirs were written off by their respective brokerage houses are the true victims. They were the ones ripped off.
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Post by Ed Jagacki on Aug 18, 2010 9:28:13 GMT -5
During the cert pull, ameritrade told me they could't send certs but I persisted. Then they said the would send but it would take x amount of time... and they didn't produce. Then i emailed them, that if I didn't receive in 2 weeks, I would be compaining to various parties including the SEC (don't remember who else I threatened them with).
Got my certs in less than 2 weeks.
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